In my review of the 'Shipwrecked' single a couple of weeks ago I had some comments on the situation for the band in the States. I think it is very strange that an excellent album by a famous band doesn't get more attention over there. My questions were as follows: "Americans - has everything changed completely over there? Is it too much "noise" to struggle with - too much noise for a band playing more than three chords on songs lasting more than four minutes..? The response was overwhelming - and thanks to all of you who wanted to share your opinions.

From: Joel[SMTP:jdgar4@northnet.org]
Sent: 23. november 1997 02:24
To: Thomas Holter
Subject: What went wrong in the States...

Who knows what went wrong. I've been listening to Genesis from the very beginning, and even though Phil lead the band into a bit of a "pop" phase, Genesis has always been one of my favorite bands. I think "Calling All Stations" is a great piece of work...it just isn't getting the attention it deserves. This could be due to the fact that the major forces in music videos, MTV, VH1, and Muchmusic in Canada, can't tear themselves away from Wu-tang, The Beastie Boys, Dr. Dre, Green Day and the like. Don't get me wrong....I hold no contempt for any of these artists....but I think that the Networks that shove this stuff down our thoats solely because of the "exclusive debut" rights are having too much of an influence on what people listen to. Anyway, that's my 2 cents.

jdgar4@northnet.org @

From: Cheeezie@aol.com[SMTP:Cheeezie@aol.com]
Sent: 22. november 1997 16:53
To: Thomas Holter
Subject: What went wrong in the States...

While I do not subscribe to this particular mindset (I am a genuine fan of the pre-Duke sound), most radio listening Americans want Genesis the hit machine -- the pasteurized processed light music band. The disgusting success of such awful efforts as Invisible Touch and We Can't Dance has now come home to roost. The fans of the kinder, gentler Genesis can't handle the added layers of complexity reflected in CAS. Let's face it, the line was drawn between serious Genesis fans and the casual hit hungry folks who have now turned their backs on them with the release of "Misunderstanding". The old fans are long gone, and the newer, more disposable listeners still can't tell the difference between Genesis or Phil Collins as a solo artist. So I believe the answer to your question is that Phil's departure has hurt the band in the States because the vocals are no longer immediately recognizable as Genesis. As powerful as Ray's voice can be, it is not a particularly distinguished "Genesis" sound in its own right (I would have recruited Marillion's Fish!!).

It is ironic and unfortunate, as I agree with your assessment that CAS is the group's best work since "Duke".

Finally, if you want real commercial acceptance in the States today, you either need to have Puffy Combs appear in your video, or have your album re-mixed by the Chemical Brothers...

From: Ricardo Williams G. Santos[SMTP:genesis@post.bsnet.com.br]
Sent: 22. november 1997 05:28
To: Thomas Holter
Subject: What went wrong in the States...

Thomas,
IMHO, the real problem are the Americans themselves... :-)))
Seriously, the people in the USA are so addicted to MTV, and the pseudo-alternative scene that "old" rock is something completely alien to them...

I don't know if you've heard, but in order for Marillion to make a tour in the US, their fans had to "collect" money to bring them... Can you believe it? I can...

Ricardo Williams G. Santos
Guaruja - SP - Brasil

From: Mark Snyder[SMTP:msnyder01@sprynet.com]
Sent: 22. november 1997 03:27
To: Thomas Holter
Subject: What went wrong in the States...

As a long time fan of Genesis, I was skeptical about the band continuing without Phil Collins. This is not to say that Phil was irreplacable because his writing skills lack the complexity which I associated with Genesis music with PG and even on Trick and Wind and Wuthering. His simplistic music has always been appealing to the U.S. masses, as many called the band Phil Collins and Genesis. I personally do not find Phil's music worth listening to, as he belongs behind a drum kit, where he does display a great deal of talent. Ray Wilson's vocals were a refreshing change, and the album is much better than recent efforts, but the fact remains that Phil's pop style is what filled stadiums on the last tour. I respect Tony and Mike for going with a relatively unknown vocalist, who fits the mood of their writing better, but fortunately for me and unfortunately for most people, the effort is not commercial enough and Ray does not sound at all like Phil. I went to my first Genesis concert in 1976, and there were between 2 and 3 thousand people there. In the ensuing years as Phil became more prominent, I saw the crowds grow as the music became more mainstream. The band is headed in a better direction now, and even though the crowds will be smaller, the appreciation of the music will be greater.

Mark

From: Craig Kline[SMTP:cksquonk@yahoo.com]
Sent: 21. november 1997 18:29
To: Thomas Holter
Subject: What went wrong in the States...

I'm sorry to say that Americans have lost the ability to think for themselves musically. The only thing that sells over here is whatever MTV (and the top 40 stations trying to disguise themselves as alternative) says is popular these days. It's a sort of snowball effect whereas if a young musician hears three chord, repetitive, three-minute garbage being played on the radio, then that's all he will think he needs to learn how to play in order to become popular musician himself.

Bands with any kind of musical talent and creativity will never be supported record companies in today's market. The Dave Matthews Band for example features some fantastic musiciains playing intricate arrangements, but even they needed to emerge through non-traditional routes (bootlegs, word of mouth), in order to be accepted by the record companies. They want to stick with the safe, bubble gum pop, one hit wonders that currently have minimal record sales and popularity. And minimal it is. When is the last time you heard of an Americian musician that has the ability to fill a stadium, let alone the ability to sell out a stadium for several nights. I keep thinking of the newspaper advertisment that Steve Hackett placed which caught the eye of Genesis. It read something along the lines of "aspiring musician seeks to stive beyond existing stagnant music forms." There has never been a more stagnant time in the history of Americian music. I am convinced that if CAS was force fed over the radio to the American listeners as much as say "No Doubt", the album would be a bigger hit.

As far as music is concerned, I'm ashamed to be an American! Thank you for letting me vent.

Craig

From: Scott R. Cole[SMTP:Scott.R.Cole@hrb.com]
Sent: 21. november 1997 15:13
To: Thomas Holter
Subject: What went wrong in the States...

Hi, my name is Scott Cole. I'm writing to you from State College, Pennsylvania, home of Penn State University. I think the biggest reason that things went so wrong here in the States for Genesis is that too many people associated the band with Phil Collins.

Phil still does fairly well here in the States and fans of his music became Genesis fans as well. Now that Phil is gone, the casual fans of Genesis' more recent music have gone away because the reason they liked the band in the first place is gone. Now, I'm sure that some people were drawn towards the band's music by Phil and ended up becoming lifelong fans (I'm included in that group.), but most people had no idea who the other people playing on stage with Phil were. They didn't realize that it was the combined efforts of Mike, Tony, Daryl, Chester, and Phil that made Genesis such a special band. I guarantee that well over 50% of the people who called themselves Genesis fans had no idea that Peter Gabriel was the original frontman for the group.

I don't think that's Phil's leaving is a bad thing personally, but it seems to have killed the band's popularity here in the States. I had fully planned to see the band in Pittsburgh at whatever venue they chose to play, but then the tour got cancelled. I can only hope that they'll attempt a tour over here next summer. Hopefully, by then, Atlantic will have done more to promote the band and they will be getting more airplay on our radio stations. Thanks for your efforts on the Path. It's a great source for info on our favorite band!

Scott Cole

From: ejoy@mindspring.com[SMTP:ejoy@mindspring.com]
Sent: 21. november 1997 01:10
To: Thomas Holter
Subject: What went wrong in the States...

In reference to the interest of "Calling all Stations" and touring. It is my opinion and observation that the current state of musical taste of America's mainstream public is pretty tasteless. We have become an "idiot culture", although there are quite a few of us with an ear to discern great music. I have been a Genesis fan for 22 yrs. I have seen the ups and downs of their success in America. The obsession with Princess Di's death threw the Promo for "Calling All Stations" off. I hope the new single will take off. Ray is a great replacement. Excuse me for being so direct but I have become disgusted with the taste of the American public lately.

Cheers,
Richard

From: John W. Higley[SMTP:jwhigley@bellatlantic.net]
Sent: 21. november 1997 04:05
To: Thomas Holter
Subject: What went wrong in the States...

First, thanks for the best source of Genesis information on the web. You put the "official" site to shame in presentation and content.

What went wrong? In the US, radio is formatted very tightly into pre-packaged labels, e.g. "Light", "Urban", "Classic". The stations which have traditionally been an outlet for Genesis throughout the years are now mostly formatted as "classic" rock stations, e.g.they play "hits" of the past 30 years, from the major 20 or 30 acts, with heavy rotation of the Stones, Pink Floyd, Eagles, Billy Joel, etc. Genesis falls within this category, but even now, 2 months after the release of the new album, the only new track I've heard on the radio is Congo, usually played within a set of older Genesis material. And I live within the New York area market, the biggest in the world. I fault both the record company promotion, and the pitiful, unimaginative radio programmers. In NYC, the major "rock" radio station (WNEW-FM) has just celebrated their 30th anniversary and I know from listening that they have been playing Genesis since 1972. Yet, today, 9 times out of 10, a Genesis track that they play will be a Phil song. On the other stations, particularly the so-called "Light" stations (advertising that they feature Barbara Streisand, Barry Manilow, Phil Collins - I'm not kidding) Phil is a staple, and in fact on the occasion a ballad Genesis track gets played, e.g. "Hold on My Heart", it will be announced as Phil Collins. What I'm trying to say is that the Phil Collins brand of music has more recognizability and marketability to the masses of asses. And the radio industry has no interest in promoting anything new. It has not always been this way. But I think that there are so many strong tracks which could fit this wide appeal format, especially Not About Us, and the U2 flavored If That's What You Need. Anyway, I'm rambling.

I just picked up the "enhanced" Congo cd today, lucky to find it, still looking for the 3-track Congo Cd. And now with 2 more Cd-Ep's to get, yes, it's hard to be a completeist these days...time was that I was one.

Saw my first Genesis show 24 years ago this month, November 23, 1973 at the Felt Forum, a small theatre within Madison Square Garden, NYC. I love to log on to The Path, just to see the Rainbow photo of 10/73 to remind me of those halcyon days.

...Let it be revealed...

John

From: Maria Elena Matute[SMTP:mmatute@optinet.hn]
Sent: 20. november 1997 17:52
To: Thomas Holter
Subject: What went wrong in the States...

I think the Americans at this moment are in love with black music, because the only thing that interest them is to dance, and they don't care about the essence in the song. I think Genesis music is too intelligent for them. Now world music stincs, and we need more groups like Genesis.

Juan Carlos

From: Aussenhandelsstelle Mailand[SMTP:austria@mbox.vol.it]
Sent: 20. november 1997 23:16
To: Thomas Holter
Subject: What went wrong in the States...

Ciao Thomas,

I'm not very busy right now and wondering how many peaple are TOO busy to send you some comments...

I don't think it's only the States, it's also (parts of?) Europe. I think the "disappointing" (who is disappointed? Genesis?, the management?, the most fervent fans?) reaction of the listening and (not-)buying audience is due to Phil Collins' departure to a much greater extent than so far believed. And this has to do not only with the loss of Genesis most important trademarks (voice and drums) which are VERY obvious IMHO, but also with the fact that Genesis' "cult"-status has finally gone to pieces. This I porbably (damn typo, but it's kinda nice...) have to explain: (how the hell can a group hit a mega-selling high with "Genesis" and "Invisible Touch" and still be adorned with cult-status..?). Genesis was very different to all the other long-living groups of the 60's and 70's in that they did never really CHANGE. True, some people went, some people were adopted as deputies but the essence of Genesis was the same at least since Nursery Cryme!!! Thus, Genesis' popularity was the result of some sort of cult. I remember an interview with Genesis, which was done after either Invisible Touch or We Can't Dance, where they said, that in case anybody left the trio, it would be the end. And - in some way - it was.

Although the new album is certainly not a bad piece of music, it shows clearly how Genesis is validated without the myth. Maybe, it is more accurate that way, maybe it shows that time has moved on without Genesis ... I don't know.

Despite everything, I should do some work now ... tanti saluti da Milano!

Andreas

From: Jim Krieger[SMTP:jkrieger@erols.com]
Sent: 20. november 1997 04:33
To: Thomas Holter
Subject: What went wrong in the States...

Thomas:

The ADVERTISING to "Calling All Stations" was next to nil. Atlantic Records did advertise "Calling All Stations" on their internet sight, which was good. But when it came to advertising in record stores, there was very, very little advertising at all to the general public. Other new releases have posters up on the front of record store windows. Or posters located inside the store letting the public know there is a new release. Out of all the stores I shop at, eight in all, only one had a poster up by the cash register announcing the new c.d. Advertising here in America for "Calling All Stations" was a big joke. One that does not seem very funny.

Judy Krieger

From: Logan 88[SMTP:ncp@mvp.net]
Sent: 19. november 1997 21:53
To: Thomas Holter
Subject: What went wrong in the States...

It's rap, hip-hop, and house music anymore. It's all 4/4 time signature beats and nothing else. Guitars and keyboards have been replaced by turntables. That's the way it is here and it isn't getting any better. I really fear for good quality 'music' in the next century. All one has to do is watch the moronic M-TV for a half an hour to get the picture.

scottkmc@hotmail.com

From: J. M. ALBAINE[SMTP:ALBAIJM@GWSMTP.NU.COM]
Sent: 19. november 1997 18:16
To: Thomas Holter
Subject: Genesis - CAS

In my opinion CAS did not do well here in the USA because of the lack of promotion combined with the state of the music scene here in the USA. I agree that the music in CAS is quite good, songs like the title track, Uncertain Weather (this one may fit in Foxtrot or Wind & Wuthering), One Man's Fool, The Dividing Line, and I even like a lot "If that's what you need", even though is a bit sappy. The music scene here is: Mariah Carey, Hanson, LJ Cool, Big Daddy etc. This is it, very difficult to get trough to a young audience that listen to this trash. Even Phil Collins is having trouble reaching this audience. And the older (baby boomers) are only interested in nostalgia, the reunion of Fleetwood Mac, the recycling of the Rolling Stones, etc.

A band like Genesis who keeps changing musically without adapting to the masses finds it hard to be accepted in this environment at this time.

I hope that Mike and Tony don't get discourage, and continue on ... If they tour the states I will surely go to see them if I can help it.

JM

From: Test[SMTP:Test@uni-mainz.de]
Sent: 19. november 1997 16:52
To: Thomas Holter
Subject: What went wrong in the States...

What went wrong in the States...
...and in the rest of the world?

Four possible explanations

1) Superficiality
Genesis delivered an album of songs with one common theme: isolation. However, only a few people seem to want to listen to sad songs like these, although isolation becomes more and more relevant in our modern western society. But people don't want to face this reality, they rather try to flee from it by letting themselves fall into the superficiality of the modern media.

2) Image
With Phil Collins as their frontman Genesis have had a very strong image. Now Collins has gone and so did the image. But without a strong image it is very hard to convince people to buy and radio stations to play the records. Genesis partly failed in building up a new image, although they had a big chance to do so with the brilliant choice of youngster Ray Wilson.

3) Between tradition and modernism
Like "Duke" CAS is an album that's caught between tradition and modernism. One the one hand it lacks the genius of "Selling England" or "Trick of the tail", on the other hand it dismisses the simple structures that can be found on WCD. Genesis should rather have tried to cover this broad range than to end up somewhere in the middle.

4) Fans
Genesis were so naiv to take the buyers of their mega-sellers for their fans. That was obviously a fatal misinterpretation, as we can see now especially in the States. To my mind the Genesis fanbase has only been slightly growing since the mid 70s. The enormous sales of WCD and "Invisible touch" can only be explained by taking into consideration the impact that the singles made. But these singles certainly do not represent the Genesis sound and they were not only bought by fans, but rather by Top 10-collectors. In 1997 some of the classical elements of the Genesis sound are finally back. That means that no singles are needed and artistic success is again superior to commercial success.

Holger Muller, Germany

From: meyer[SMTP:meyer@fh-ge.de]
Sent: 19. november 1997 07:35
To: Thomas Holter
Subject: What went wrong in the States...

Hi there,

I don't know what went wrong (or is wrong) in the States, but here in Germany a radio station called BFBS (it's the British Forces Radio Station) played "Congo" very often and it had airplay at the best times. Even "Shipwrecked" already got some airplay, even though I must say too, that it's not the strongest track on the album and it won't do as good as "Congo".

I work as a DJ in our local pub and played "Shipwrecked" yesterday to a more or less indifferent public. There were some reactions with "Congo" though; people hummed the tune and even sung the chorus. So I guess I'll play "Congo" in the future or even some not yet released songs from the album like "Calling All Stations" or "Not About Us".

Congratulations to your very good website, I've bookmarked it and call it up every now and then. Cheers and keep up the good work.

Marcus Meyer
Soest
Germany

From: Holly Fuller[SMTP:hfuller@earthlink.net]
Sent: 19. november 1997 16:36
To: Thomas Holter
Subject: What went wrong in the States...

I live in the States and can only say that US radio been pathetically commercial for over 15 years. So do not hold your breath. The only reason Genesis caught on the States during the 80s was because of the far more commercial success of Phil C. In fact, the band was often referred to as "Phil Collins and Genesis". Don't get me wrong, I loved Phil up until Abacab and still thought band had some sparks on all their 80s and 90s albums.

American radio is a lost cause. My recommendation is not waste your time calling the stations but get out and tell your friends that Calling All Stations is a respectable effort.

I was planning on attending one of their pre-Christmans shows in Boston and was disappointed when it was cancelled. What was the real reason?

Sincerely,
Peter Fuller
San Francisco, California
A Die Hard Fan for 20 Years

From: Radecki[SMTP:radecki@spec.net]
Sent: 19. november 1997 04:38
To: Thomas Holter
Subject: What went wrong in the States...

I am from the suburbs of New York City, which is one of the biggest music towns in the U.S. I have heard the "Congo" single a few times (about 5) on radio stations 102.3 WBAB FM, 102.7 WNEW FM, and 104.3 WAXQ FM, which are the predominant rock and "classic" rock stations in the area. I think that the lack of promotion of the album by the DJ's and the lack of promotion by record stores in the area did not help. The fact that my local record store told me that "no singles [from Calling All Stations] were issued" (sic) did not help. However, the predominant factor, in my opinion, is that so many radio DJs made such a big deal over how Phil left, and seemed to give the impression to the public that Genesis was "dead." This definetly was the promotion problem here. On another subject, I think the album is very good, but quite a drastic change from Genesis when Phil was a member.

I'd love to hear from others on their thoughts, as well as yours. Keep up the good work on the site.

Glenn

From: Matthew Edmond[SMTP:Matthew.J.Edmond@wheaton.edu]
Sent: 18. november 1997 21:42
To: Thomas Holter
Subject: How to obtain foreign Genesis singles?

Mr. Holter:

Can you give me any ideas on how to get a hold of all that new wonderful stuff being released only on the European Genesis singles? There's a legion of unfortunate fans here in America not blessed enough to hear such audio treasures...

And I apologize for the lack of Genesis concern on behalf of my country. My American peers aren't very bright, anyway. They're always looking for the next big thing. Genesis fans are everywhere around here, but they aren't in the mainstream. Don't get discouraged with us. Remember, the U.S. press is also lamenting how R.E.M and U2 have done poorly here in the last year. But it doesn't seem that way when I stop and look around. Take heart; all things come around in time.

Sincerely,
Matt Edmond

From: Jim Rye[SMTP:JimRye@gbso.net]
Sent: 19. november 1997 01:01
To: Thomas Holter
Subject: What went wrong in the States...

In answer to your question. Yes, the radio scene is AWFUL here. Not that we accept all the blame. Much of the "noise" you speak of is coming from Europe. I was surprised when the album didn't take off in the States. Atlantic did a good job promoting it with radio spots and large lighted displays in record stores. Still, I have YET to hear Congo or any other song from CAS on the radio. Oh well, maybe next album.

From: Squonk67@aol.com[SMTP:Squonk67@aol.com]
Sent: 19. november 1997 00:59
To: Thomas Holter
Subject: What went wrong in the States...

Dear Path,

The problem with the States lies within a few titles........SKA, HIP-POP, and DANCE. These types of music have taken over the airwaves. I can turn on the radio, at any time of the day, and find that noise on it. The kids today are not interested in complicated lyrics surrounded by tastefully crafted music. I've been a Genesis fan since, 'And Then There Were Three'(since I'm only 21) and I must say their style of music writing has changed only for the better. But, if I recall Phil Collins had little trouble promoting his 'Dance into...' album. His singles were not played on the radio as much as in the past. My "opinion" is the very first single Genesis should have released should have been, 'Calling All Stations'. It's dark presence along with the rough guitar riffs by Rutherford would have been well enough to launch them. 'Not About Us', however, does have a chance. By starting out with the accoustic guitar and keeping it throughout the song, it has a chance to fair better that 'Push', by Matchbox 20 or even 'If You Could Only See' by Tonic. That's what the time wants now.....simple. For now, we just have to hope and pray.

Sincerly,
Brian Kohler - The Squonk

From: [SMTP:klausman@gemini.brevard.k12.fl.us]
Sent: 18. november 1997 19:48
To: Thomas Holter
Subject: opinion

I've been a "Genesis freak" for the last twenty years, and am much dismayed that their new material is getting no airplay. I am not surprised by this, however, because the big business music reps. of today's music industry are mostly interested in seeking image, not musical talent. They cash-in with new acts, (targeted at 12 to 17 year olds) shoot their videos for MTV, sign record deals with no long term intentions, and then drop acts as fast as they find them, when they are no longer "in". Acts like Genesis don't fit into any existing radio format, and without Phil (not doing so hot now either), or air time on MTV, we can forget about Genesis, no matter which single they choose to release.

This ordeal reminds me of a Joe Jackson show which I saw in 1990, in which Joe berated "Classic Rock" stations. Little new legitimate talent has been receiving airplay (when it comes to rock music) in the last 7 years. Joe's message was prophetic. True music connoisseurs have been suffering since the induction of "classic rock stations". The garage bands, rappers, and country hicks have monopolized the music industry. Unfortunately, they're here to stay. I only hope that this does not bring about the doom of my favorite band --GENESIS-- since I was 8 years old.

Klausman

From: Stephen Jack[SMTP:sjack@rci.rogers.com]
Sent: 18. november 1997 18:23
To: Thomas Holter

The problem is actually North American wide. Genesis, like many British bands over time, break first in Canada and then move to the US. In particular Montreal and Toronto are hotbeds for European invasion. Montreal is probably the most "prog-friendly" town on the continent.

CAS has been a non-event in the winter half of North America called Canada. Genesis appears to have lost its beach-head to North America. Before I give you some answers I'll give you some devatating evidence.

1) Low radio airplay, if at all on even the "classic rock" stations, they play lots of U2 and Stones
2) NO, I mean absolutely NO video play.
3) Positions in record stores are low to non-existent

All lead to the following, without exposure even existing fans don't know that CAS is there, let alone attracting new fans.

Here is the rhetorical question, does it surprise anybody?
1) Mike and the Mechanics last album sold poorly in North America
2) Strictly Inc. (Bank's last album) barely raised a stink
3) Phil Collins album sold below expectations

All had almost non radio airplay, very little video play etc.

It should not surprise anyone that the Genesis album sold very low. By the way none of this is a comment on the quality of the music. I have all CD's and all are frequent vsiitors to my CD players.

Essentially the band is getting blocked in the channel. Radio won't play, Video definitely doesn't play. Genesis are not the Stones, certainly not in their current form so there is no carryover. Genesis is past the U2 stage of monsters of rock. They were unable to create the aura that Pink Floyd does when they release their bidecadal albums.

To be honest, I believe Genesis were not adventerous enough with their sound so they missed the mark. It was different enough that there was doubt created about their giant status and yet not different enough to create the interest of a new band. Their problem is that they have yet to establish an identity again in North America.

Have North American audiences changed in taste, of course all audiences change. CAS is good album but not the stunner that was probably needed. Gallo's comments are accurate. In the Foxtrot days there was little identity to the music but the Genesis tours brought fans together and wowed the critics. Genesis either needs to become the ultimate version of their former selves or move strictly down one of their many tangents, ie an album full of the heaviness found on the title track or some other path.

I would suggest some stripped down shows in 2,000 seat arena's playing good music, as we all know Genesis can and will do, these guys are VERY good muscians. Pick old stomping grounds, Toronto, Montreal, Pittsburgh, Philly, Buffalo etc. Only spend a month or so, get a feel for North America again and write another album. Get adventerous. Europe sounds secure but they need to re-establish North America. The formula doesn't change, write and tour write and tour, unless you are Pink Floyd.

Genesis needs to write the kind of "coffee table" book album that Floyd writes. Slick, deep production etc, regardless of musical style, they did it with Selling England and A Trick of the Tail. Examples are Floyd's last album, Simple Minds (New Gold Dream), Peter Gabriel's last album. To that end, get a name producer like Trevor Horn or better yet Rupert Hine, the producer everybody in Genesis has worked with solo. Go for a larger concept, not a story but an overarching theme. CAS was unfinished, it could have been about COMMUNICATION as a concept it could have been about Alienation from your home and environment. This would capture people's attention.

I will say again, all is not lost. Like during Foxtrot the band has to go around the critics and get to the fans. The band Yes, without a new album and poor sales on the last one from 3 years ago, sold out two back to back shows in Toronto at a 2,500 seat theatre. The appetite is there just get over and play. Then come back with another album very quickly, they have to do the hard stuff all over again. The question is are Mike and Tony willing to do it again.

Stephen Jack

From: Matthew S. Mueller[SMTP:MARCUSTR@concentric.net]
Sent: 18. november 1997 18:25
To: Thomas Holter
Subject: What went wrong in the States...

An American Genesis fan, here. Here's my opinion on why Genesis is failing in the States:

They are trying to sell their up-beat songs. Perhaps they are trying to go for another "Invisible Touch," but they can forget it. Ray's voice suits the moody stuff, not the happy stuff.

An edited version of "Calling All Stations" should have been the very first release here in the US. It's suits Ray's voice PERFECTLY and shows a side of Genesis that hasn't been shown to the masses since "Mama" and the edited version of "Tonight Tonight Tonight." When I heard "Congo" on the radio before CAS hit the shelves, I wasn't that impressed and didn't have much hope for the album. But when I popped the CD in when it came out, I was blown away by the title track. It seems almost Pink Floyd-like.

I think perhaps management at Atlantic saw the success of happy-sounding female artists like Jewel and the catchy stuff put out by Dave Matthews and rap artists as an indicator of "what the public wants," but they should just forget that notion. It wasn't Jewel or some other radio band that held a big FREE outdoor concert in Philadephia last week -- it was Metallica, the antidote to happiness!

Sure, the mellow stuff is being sold as hip on MTV and radio, but there are people out there who want to rock, and there are LOTS of people out there that are sick to death of drippy and happy songs.

Take the band Live as an example. The first single off their latest album wasn't another "I Alone" type of slow song, it was "Lakini's Juice" which is their heaviest song yet!

Similarly, Rush didn't release the relatively happy/mandolin solo song "Half the World" as the first single off of Test for Echo, they used the title track and got immediate air play.

The friends of mine who are Genesis fans (hard and soft core) are all unimpressed by what they have heard of the "new Genesis" so far, but everyone is looking forward to hearing "the new guy sing the old stuff." I think that should be the greatest indicator of all of what Genesis fans are looking to hear on the radio.

Finally, Genesis also needs to revamp their tour for the U.S. They don't have Phil anymore, so they should get into their mindsets that they are starting over. Instead of having a huge stage setup and trying to sellout large venues, the band should strip down their set and go for smaller venues, as well as tour intensively. A band should never rest on their laurels!

Next, to get to the US audience, MTV exposure is essential. Videos are great, but MTV airs fewer and fewer videos these days. They should, instead, see if they can't get one of their shows aired on the new "Live at the 10 Spot" program, or maybe do a session for "Unplugged" and then release the set as a disc, a la Nirvana (can you picture Tony using a Mellotron for it?)

Sorry to ramble, but I feel that Genesis is missing a great opportunity to help make music something more artistic. The re-united Jane's Addiction is doing something like that right now. Genesis could do it better.

Matt Mueller

From: Randy Boice[SMTP:RBOICE@HNTB.com]
Sent: 18. november 1997 16:07
To: Thomas Holter
Subject: What's happening in the US

Our radio stations are making me sick. If it doesn't sound like Hanson/Jewel/Whitney, it is not played on adult contemporary. If it doesn't sound like 311/Matchbox 20/Oasis (the first album), it's not played on rock stations. The divisions between what type of music is played on each station is so vast, I'm afraid Genesis doesn't fit anywhere.

In my opinion, "Not About Us" is a fantastic choice for a single and it should have been the first choice. It reaches out to the MTV unplugged generation while being a pure Genesis song with subtle layers in its composition. While it may not be played on the modern rock stations, it would open the door for songs like Congo, Shipwrecked, There Must Be Some Other Way, etc.

To back you up, I also find Shipwrecked to be rather hollow. However, they had already shot the video for it, so perhaps they were committed to it. Also, since the CD is doing much better over there, they may be able to get away with that as a single. But with US sales being the total of the American contingent of Paperlate over here, they may be more willing to cut their losses and go acoustic.

American radio is increasingly being bought out big companies. For example, Disney owns two radio stations (that I know of) in my listening area, and they play the same thing over and over. Surprisingly they call themselves the stations with the greatest variety. To them, I guess variety means they play a variety of Hanson/Whitney/Jewel songs. The fact that their is a decreasing number of locally owned stations may explain the divisions in what we are allowed to hear.

We only get to hear what others want us to hear. So much for being the "leader of the free world".

Randy

From: Russell Hammond[SMTP:rhammond@westpac.com.au]
Sent: 26. november 1997 18:36
To: Thomas Holter
Subject: What went wrong in the States...

Thomas

This is the ramblings from a long term Genesis fan with a very different perspective from Australia. Since I came to know Genesis from the Trespass album, I have basically grown with the band throughout its various permutations and have enjoyed each and every album.

I subscribed to Paperlate for a while but gave up due to volume of "noise" from Genesis fans regarding "everything" about the band. I just couldn't believe they would analysis, criticism and just pick to pieces ANYTHING and EVERYTHING. The decision to replace Phil was not a liked.

My opinion about what happened in the States are:

* Phil left. Most fans and probably radio stations in the states were used to the "Collin's" sound on Genesis vocals, and I am a fan as well. Genesis made it BIG with Phil and I expect they wanted more of the same. I personally like Ray's vocals and I wish him a long and distinguished career in the band.

* Congo. It was released in Australia as a single but from the Paperlate postings it appears not to have been the case in the States. If it wasn't officially released as a single then the record company should be shot, promos to radio stations are not enough. Also, I believe that 'Not About Us' is a more radio friendly than 'Congo' and should have been the first single released.

* Genesis appreciation. The short 3 -4 minute radio friendly song is OK but I believe that Genesis are better at the longer songs. 'Calling All Stations' seems to build and evolve its tracks and this album is Genesis at its best, I can't hear a bad track. Maybe it has something to do with the 'We Can't Dance' sound that pulled a new era of Genesis fans that can't adjust to the new album. Are 'older' Genesis fans more accepting of the new album?

* Album releases. It really has been a long time between studio albums. Enough said.

* Touring. America seems to have a 'need' for bands to tour. These guys should live here, we live on hope and dreams only. But the cancellation of the North American tour wouldn't have helped keeping Genesis in the 'public eye' or is that ear.

* Cultural. Could it have something to do with the America psyche? I'm no expert in this area so I'll leave this topic alone!

* Maybe it's a case of "You can't please all of the people all of the time".

The tyranny of distance and the detachment of Australia does not lend itself to easy comment on another country but there is no harm in providing some observations. The American market is vitally important to the long term viability of Genesis so healthy sales are essential. Ignoring or mishandling this market could be the bands downfall. There is a litany of bands which have bungled releases and have either broken up or just 'retracted' to their home country. PFM, Asia and Nektar come readily to mind.

I believe Genesis can do what they like and basically give the fans the music that Banks, Rutherford and Wilson want, not what the fans expect. Do they have to chase the next 10 million selling album? Do they need a top 5 hit with every album? Does each album have to sell more that the last? Does each album have to universally accepted and liked by everyone? No, no, no and no!

That's my two cents worth.

Russell Hammond

[In reply to my reply - ed.]

From: Russell Hammond[SMTP:rhammond@westpac.com.au]
Sent: 28. november 1997 19:18
To: Thomas Holter
Subject: What went wrong in the States...

Thomas,

My previous post was fairly mild regarding what went wrong in the States with Genesis and I didn't want to cause World War III between an outside party and America. While you are in Norway and "closer" to some of the action than I am in Australia, you must be aware of some idiosyncrasies of the "American" market.

I personally believe that America is relatively isolated from the rest of the world. They do NOT like other nations commenting on the internal affairs of their country. This is partly due to the very size of the country and the number of markets and sub markets that they can be supported. Critical mass is a word that comes to mind. I am not a political observer and do not hold myself to be one and I rely solely on my eyes and ears from papers, radio and television and visits to their wonderful country. I remember when Kim Wilde and the Boomtown Rats released "Kids in America" and "I Don't Like Mondays" respectively, the flack from the American press and television was unbelievable. How could an outsider make comments about their country. Easy I say because they DON'T always get it right!

Further, they can cause a band to change their "sound" for no other reason than the American market. Le Orme had a typical "Italian" sound until they went to LA and recorded Smog Magic (I cannot remember the full Italian name). What a disappointment the album was, but they returned to their familiar "sound" for the next album. Further PFM English albums have been criticised, but I like them for obvious reasons, but they became a hit in England and the States. They only seemed to last a couple of more albums before retreating to Italian albums only. Also, Asia were monstrous in their early years (and a lot attributable to the States) and are now working towards recovering "lost" ground. I wish Payne and Downes all the luck in every market, not just the States.

North America is an important market, but then again so is Japan. In music terms the Japanese seem to provide an important sub - culture for a number of bands. Look at the number of obscure re-releases that the Japanese produce. Most first run albums have an extra track or two that are not on European or American albums. Is this niche marketing or just good marketing? Again, the size of the Japanese market helps in the "differences" in studio albums from the West.

I do think that Genesis's new album stands up well along side all their others, irrespective of the member line up. From ".. And Then There Were Three" Genesis did manage to produce a number of radio friendly tracks that have been bringing in the fans, old and new, and the band has gone from strength to strength in sales. As I said in my previous posting that the change in lead vocals and a number of management related issues in the States has caused this "glitch" and the buying public and radio stations are simply not supporting the band. Maybe a tour, a new single and maybe better "marketing" will help.

Personally I am not that interested in the problems in the States. I have lived in isolation from the band my entire life, but have supported the band with purchasing each and every album and video release, what more can I do from here.

I would not want the band to fold because of "Calling All Stations" and they are bigger than the sum of the individual members. Why not write off the current problems and start a new album! What is wrong with releasing an album every year or less. Nektar, Yes, ELP, Greenslade and even Genesis were prolific releasers of albums in their formative years. Could Banks, Rutherford and Wilson please get the creative juices going and produce more of the type of music that they do best.

Thomas, I am not worried if you use this post as well as my previous one. It is only one person's opinion against someone else's and isn't this the basis of debate? Why ask the market where the problems are happening? Can they see the forest from the trees?

Thank you for the time to respond to my previous post and good luck is organising this research.

Russell

From: Peter K. Geddes[SMTP:Peter.K.Geddes@mci.com]
Sent: 25. november 1997 23:31
To: Thomas Holter
Subject: What went wrong in the States...

MTV drives everything over here. If MTV doesn't play it, it won't get on the radio. And we all know what drives MTV (think Spice Girls)...

Peter

From: TERRY SHARKIE[SMTP:psu14927@odin.cc.pdx.edu]
Sent: 25. november 1997 00:36
To: Thomas Holter
Subject: What went wrong in the States...

The music indistry in the States right now has simply stopped supporting talented, time honoured artists in it's race to chace new trends by the hour. The industry has also turned it's back on anyone over 25, as it signs on many scraggly young hacks in hopes of landing the next Nirvana/ Soundgarden/ Elastica/ etc. and how long did any of those last? The American music industry has no vision of longevity right now, because it's controlled by MTV which aims towards the fickle, callow tastes of teeny boppers and excluding the ever expanding adult musical audience, whose tastes are more clear and defined, and who desire something better than the drivel they're being dished by TV and radio these days. Consequentially, the industry is waisting lots of money on short term assets, but like all phases, it should pass once they wake up and realize their losses. In the meantime, I think Genesis and all other bands of their stature should just be concerned with making great music and appreciate the many out there who can appreciate such a thing.

Terry

From: TERRY SHARKIE[SMTP:psu14927@odin.cc.pdx.edu]
Sent: 25. november 1997 00:41
To: Thomas Holter
Subject: What went wrong in the States...

I must add that the current musical doldrums are the fault of Nirvana and that dreaded Seattle grunge scene that wiped out the whole gamut of musical diversity and creativity in it's path of destruction. And the media were the machine behind it, for they were the ones who really created it so they could sell more copy to those who are too young to know any better.

Terry

From: Motley6420@aol.com[SMTP:Motley6420@aol.com]
Sent: 24. november 1997 15:36
To: Thomas Holter
Subject: What went wrong in the States...

Hello, my name is Al. I live in the Detroit, Mi. area. I saw Genesis in 86 and 92. Both shows were good. I purchased tickets in October 97 for Genesis at The Palace in Auburn Hills MI. I got 1st row. My friend called me up 4 days later and said it had been cancelled. No surprise to me. I was the only one in the ticket line. I waited outside in the cold for 2 hours. I don't know what happened to Genesis here, but look at the facts: Phil Collins now is a superstar, and has been since 85 in my eyes. Progressive Rock is no longer cool, Marilyn Manson is, or Hanson I should say. I saw Yes here at the Fox Theatre and it didn't even sell out!?!? I don't know what's wrong? I think the problem is a mixture of Phil being out of the band, and Americans seem to go for 3 minute grunge songs or dance songs. My opinion about the new album is that it is not good at all, I love all of Genesis albums up to the self titled 83 release. The thing in the USA here is that Americans love POP MUSIC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
They don't care about instrumentals. I think I'm gonna watch the Oxford 74 show on video, and think about how things should be for Genesis.
PROGRESSIVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
NOT POP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You see, Genesis can't make up their minds. BE ONE OR THE OTHER, THEY SHOULD HAVE QUIT IN 82. That's my opinion.

Al